"Casabianca"

[Reader]

The poem "Casabianca" is great piece of poetry written by Felicia Dorthea Hemans. I would like to hear what those of the forum think about the boy's actions in the poem.

[Reader]

What do the people of the forum think of the boy's display of heroism?

[Reader]

Casabianca (1826)

The boy stood on the burning deck
Whence all but he had fled;
The flame that lit the battle's wreck
Shone round him o'er the dead.

Yet beautiful and bright he stood,
As born to rule the storm;
A creature of heroic blood,
A proud, though childlike form.

The flames roll'd on...he would not go
Without his father's word;
That father, faint in death below,
His voice no longer heard.

He call'd aloud..."Say, father,say
If yet my task is done?"
He knew not that the chieftain lay
Unconscious of his son.

"Speak, father!" once again he cried
"If I may yet be gone!"
And but the booming shots replied,
And fast the flames roll'd on.

Upon his brow he felt their breath,
And in his waving hair,
And looked from that lone post of death,
In still yet brave despair;

And shouted but one more aloud,
"My father, must I stay?"
While o'er him fast, through sail and shroud
The wreathing fires made way,

They wrapt the ship in splendour wild,
They caught the flag on high,
And stream'd above the gallant child,
Like banners in the sky.

There came a burst of thunder sound...
The boy-oh! where was he?
Ask of the winds that far around
With fragments strewed the sea.

With mast, and helm, and pennon fair,
That well had borne their part;
But the noblest thing which perished there
Was that young faithful heart.

I am sorry. Maybe I should have done this sooner. Here is the poem.

[Reader]

Oh! and here is a little background. I am taking this from a footnote in The Norton Anthology of English Literature 7th ed. Vol. 2.

"Young Casabianca, a boy about thirteen years old, son to Admiral of the Orient, remained at his post (in the Battle of the Nile) after the ship had taken fire, and all the guns had been abandoned; and perished in the explosion of the vessel, when the flames reached the powder [Heman's note]. The Battle of the Nile, in which Nelson captured and destroyed the French fleet in Aboukir Bay, took place on August 1, 1798."

I hope this will be helpful in getting this discussion started.

[floppywhopper]

Actually an Australian sailor ( name eludes me now )
won a VC during WW II for very similar actions....
posthumously

I think this song by Emerson Lake & Palmer
sums up my feelings
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/emerson..._20049799.html

If you haven't heard it
download it
has a nice synth solo


floppy

[Reader]

Floppy!

I enjoyed that. Thanks for the response. You see some say that the boy was conditioned and his actions came from empty obediance. Others might say his actions came from admirable loyalty. Ok, I am just going to throw it out on the table. I tend to think that this boy displayed admirable loyalty that is a tribute to heroism. If I understand the lyrics correctly you seem to think along the same lines as me? Actually, in during one of my literature classes, while attending my university, this piece was hotly debated. The other side claimed it was a waste of life, and that there was something wrong with a 13 year old boy fighting in this war and dying for what they believed to be empty obediance. England produced several pieces like this one during this time period as propaganda, so to glorify dying for the good of the empire. Some say to condition the young. There might be something wong with this, but you cannot take away from the glory of heroism. So you see if I can get more people to participate in this discussion I think it would be a good one. Thanks again for your response it was a good one. DO you think we can paste it onto the thread so that others can access it easily? Very thought provoking indeed!

[bren]

Loyalty and obediance are fine and admirable qualities. I am a fairly sentimental person and the poem itself evoked those sentiments.

However - I prefer to believe that I am raising my own children with a strong ability to evaluate their situations and act accordingly. Nuremberg Principles, particularly number IV, require soldiers to behave thoughtfully and morally and I agree with that.

[Reader]

Thanks Bren,

Very thoughtful. From what I understand, you believe what the boy did was an act of heroism. However, you also believe these kinds of actions are dangerous? You believe the kinds of people capable of these kinds of actions could very well be capable of following orders that were unlawful? I follow your thinking, but I must humbly request that we becareful of the slippery slope fallacy for arguement sake. However, I think that we can find parallels of the dangers you are talking about in the world today. Thanks Bren, for your thoughtful reply.

[bren]

When a person responds bravely, doing what he believes is right despite mortal obstacles particularly, that is one of the definitions of heroism. In that sense, he is a hero. And such a person may commit an unlawful act. Circumstances will dictate whether I agree or disagree with a specific act. Danger is inevitable - we are alive and thus in peril at all times, so to me, danger is an issue only in immediate physical situations. Dangerous thinking? I'll have to consider that one.

Can you please explain the phrase, "slippery slope fallacy...". Not sure exactly what you're getting at.

[Reader]

You mentioned, "Dangerous thinking", I do not know if you brought that up or you were referring that I said that, and I never said anything about dangerous thinking. Mind you, I state this humbly. You are right about examining each circumstance. The circumsatnce in question, however, is "Casabianca." Let us try not to stray, but I very much respect what you said on the matter. Like I said, I believe we can draw parallels, and I think you brought that parallel to the attention of the forum. I am not saying that you are guilty of the slippery slope fallacy, but if we say that soldiers might not obey moral or ethical laws if they display actions such as Casabianca, then that would be a fallacy. I am not saying that you said it, but I just wanted to clarify to the forum. Thanks Bren! http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...ery-slope.html