help needed! thievery in Oliver Twist?

[psychomax13]

hey eveybody!

i need help for my project to find out an answer about Oliver Twist. here is the question given:

oliver twist is full of thievery. some of it is committed by criminals like Sikes against respectable people like the Maylies, while some of it is commited by "respectable" people like Mrs.Mann and Mr.Bumble against the poor. how are those two types of thievery different? what do they have in common? Also, consider the various ways in which other people "rob" Oliver of his identity. what does prevalence of thievery in the novel say about the world that it portrays?


thanks in advance for your help!

[floppywhopper]

All theft is a crime
therefore all thieving is committed by criminals
regardless of their perceived public status

therfore a respectable thief and a common thief
have in common
that they are both criminals


floppy

[Reader]

If A=B and B=C then C must be equal to A. Do you use this formula in all aspects of life?:eek:

[floppywhopper]

Reader
Only in cooking

psycomax13
anyway have you read "Oliver Twist"
what are your thoughts


floppy

[Poet of Midnight]

I've read Oliver Twist and I agree with Floppywhopper all theft is a crime. Oliver Twist is full of theivery and characters with misguided ways.

[Reader]

Yes, as a matter of fact I have read Oliver Twist. You have your label maker at the ready and apply your formula. Anyway, I am not attacking what you said. I just think how you apply your logic or rationalize life kind of funny. If you want to do well on your project then check out a few books on England's Victorian era.

[floppywhopper]

Actually Reader
my comment about reading Oliver Twist was directed at Psycomax
and I have edited my post to clarify that

and I dont have a label marker
but I do have a dictionary
for criminal
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q...al&x=0&y=0
for theft
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theft&x=0&y=0

so to restate
* theft is a crime
* crime is committed by criminals
its not a formula just facts of life
but
if you think it is a formula
then please point out where it is wrong

floppy

[psychomax13]

yes i've read it! and thanx to you all for your comments. my thought about that will be the essay which i'll give to my lecturer as the term project! for now i just wanna say that yes you're right about both are crimes done by criminals but what is the difference between them. and i have to find blueprints for my essay... thanks again

[Reader]

Psychomax, do you live in Turkey? Are you a Turkish citizen? Are you writing this essay for a college professor? Do not answer if you are not comfortable. I do not want to pry. I just thought your location was interesting.

Floppy..., this conversation is only going to lead to us being rude to each other. Nevertheless, I will oblige. Let's break the arguement down a little, for communication sake. I am not arguing with your opinion. I really do not care-what you think. If you want to give your opinion that everyone is a criminal so be it. However, the way you come by your judgement is a result of muddled thinking. For example, you pointed out that you do not have a label maker, but a dictionary to help you make your, what I believe to be hasty and illthought, assumptions on character. You seem to be quick to cast a judgement on chareacter- as soon as you can pull a label from a dictionary. After you have given a label to a character, you have made it easy for yourself to apply a ready made formula to turn it into a black and white issue. Dangerous thinking. There is a different way you could have approached this matter. Instead of giving a subjective, opinionated, B.S. answer, it might have been better to look at this objectively. This is what professors look for in good papers. It might have been better to answer with a question. What differentiation did Victorian society make on these types of criminals, if any, and how does this differ on what our society makes of these kinds of criminals? After you ask this, recommend a few books to Pschomax for his research. You see, Psychomax understands that you have an opinion. Read his post. He needs to find "blueprints." In other words, he needs research to give validity to what will be said in the essay. Do not tell me that your answer to Psychomax was just providing a definition of theft and criminal. No, you were labeling and judging character. If this is how you would write an essay so be it, but these characters need to be looked at as if they were real. Dickens was certainly talking about real social problems happening to real people. Let's discuss them as such. We certainly must not be quick to label and judge real people based on subjective reasoning. So, as I said before let us look at this objectively, ask our question, do our research, and write a well thought out essay. Do we have an understanding?

[floppywhopper]

Reader Wrote:Floppy..., this conversation is only going to lead to us being rude to each other. Nevertheless, I will oblige.

No we have rules about rudeness here and I would urge you to read them

Reader Wrote:If you want to give your opinion that everyone is a criminal so be it.

No ! I said people who commit crimes are criminals

Reader Wrote:However, the way you come by your judgement is a result of muddled thinking.

Urge you to read the rules about personal attacks

Reader Wrote:Instead of giving a subjective, opinionated, B.S. answer, it might have been better to look at this objectively.

Again read the rules

Reader Wrote:This is what professors look for in good papers. It might have been better to answer with a question. What differentiation did Victorian society make on these types of criminals, if any, and how does this differ on what our society makes of these kinds of criminals? After you ask this, recommend a few books to Pschomax for his research. You see, Psychomax understands that you have an opinion. Read his post. He needs to find "blueprints." In other words, he needs research to give validity to what will be said in the essay. Do not tell me that your answer to Psychomax was just providing a definition of theft and criminal. No, you were labeling and judging character. If this is how you would write an essay so be it, but these characters need to be looked at as if they were real. Dickens was certainly talking about real social problems happening to real people. Let's discuss them as such. We certainly must not be quick to label and judge real people based on subjective reasoning. So, as I said before let us look at this objectively, ask our question, do our research, and write a well thought out essay.

A number of relevant issues
Actually Victorian society was very harsh.
I live in a country that was to some large degree a penal colony, where just stealing an apple in England could get you 10 years of transportation to.

You say I was labelling character - I disagree
I have a close friend who sits on the bench
and his job is mostly to sift the innocent from the guilty
not to decide character
in fact character only affects the sentence if any

Reader Wrote:Do we have an understanding?

I hope so now
by all means disagree with me if you must
but rudeness won't be tolerated

and I would urge you rather than assume the intent of someones post
to ask for clarification first before you debate them

floppy